We will be ‘more equipped’ than the big agencies if there is a recession – claims GOVT
As part of a new series looking into Singapore’s independent agency scene, the three partners of GOVT –Leon Lai, Aaron Koh and Tim Chan – talk to Mumbrella Asia editor Eleanor Dickinson about being in charge of their own destiny, staying lean and the authenticity of that OCBC lie detector test
Why did you start the agency and why did you form an independent agency rather than working at a network and making three times the cash?
Aaron: “It was something we wanted to do on our own without anyone telling us what to do. We knew that we had the drive and the youth to do it at the time. Leon and I had a long conversation about how to do it – and we just said let’s go with our gut and do it. Even if we failed, at least we knew we were doing something right. The both of us strongly believed in it. And we still have the youth and drive. Doing it our way is the most important thing. It may not be the right way, but it is our way.”
Leon: “I think our way is having honesty in the way we approach work. There were so many times we were working for network agencies and we thought: ‘Would we have done it any other way?’. There is no best way, but it’s always about the right way for you. Are we running the agency in a way that we can sleep at night.”
This last year has been good for you with the OCBC account win, but was there any point during your short four-and-a-half-year history that you thought about throwing the towel in?
Leon: “I don’t think so. When we started the agency at the start of 2013, we started very lean, with low operating costs and very low salaries compared to what we were earning before. And we hustled for business; we met people every day. We made our first hire about seven months later, but we were still paying ourselves shit money.
“Last year was definitely the best in terms of revenue, wins and profitability. The toughest part for us is right now – scaling the business from a 28-man shop to now, where we are almost 50. In the last six months, a lot has changed: the company structure, operating costs and even to how we react as leaders. None of us ever thought about throwing in the towel and we do embrace the challenges every day.”
Aaron: “When we started it, we did all say ’if this doesn’t work in two years, let’s just go and open a chicken rice stall’.”
Leon: “And were quite strict about that. Aaron was working overseas and turned down a great opportunity in Shanghai to come back to Singapore. At the time he was 29 and in the prime of his career. If we didn’t make the targets we set, then we would call it quits. Because otherwise we would be just making excuses. Tim also turned down a good opportunity to join us when we were just 15 people. But for us it’s about being proud of the work we do – not just about being independent.”
But has being independent puts you at a disadvantage at times when competing for business against the bigger networks? Have you seen any change in the playing field over the last few years?
Tim: “I think if the three of us were stuck together in a network agency, we would still make the same calls and would have the same environment and culture that we have here. For sure, clients are becoming more open and agencies that used to be much bigger have shrunk a little bit. Clients are getting smarter about their selections. Some 10 years ago in Singapore, there was a lot more regional alignment. But now we are seeing a lot more local businesses who are more free to choose who they want to work with.”
Leon: “In the past, maybe there was a stigma and perhaps when we started, we perceived there was a stigma. We were three men; why would you choose [an independent] when you could be assured by a network that the work will get done no matter what because of the resources available. But now the game has changed; clients are more savvy and smarter about the types of agencies they work with, and the chemistry.”
Given the Western-centric agencies in Singapore overall, did you ever feel prejudice against you as three Singaporean men?
Leon: “That’s something that is prevalent in every industry. But no we do not feel prejudice because we feel we can hold our own against anyone in the industry. The three of us are local boys, we are Asian. In a network you tend to get your British, Australians and Americans, but do we feel intimidated? No we do not.”
A lot of agencies have said this year has been tough in terms of the revenue coming in. Have you witnessed that and do you think independent agencies are likely to struggle more during these times?
Leon: “Across the board, the briefs and the money are the same whether you are Ogilvy, BBDO or us. I like to think that we will be more equipped if there is a recession: our overheads are lower; we are much more agile and nimble. And we have constantly kept our operations very lean, and there is a war chest for us.
“To keep things lean, we don’t have any planners. And regardless of whether you are a creative or a suit, we believe you can contribute in different capacities. We reward our people with bonuses when we can. It helps because they feel involved in the agency no matter their role. Our creatives don’t just act like creatives: they think deeper; they are strategists to an extent. We always ask ourselves is this a need or a want? We could take the easy way out and hire more people, but then that becomes an overhead.”
How do you factor costs in when it comes to business development and choosing whether or not to pitch?
Leon: “We receive a lot of invitations to pitch – maybe 40 RFPs a year. But we select our battles carefully. This year we have not embarked on a single pitch. It’s not that we don’t need to,everyone loves money. I love money. But when we won OCBC last year, we made a promise that for the first six months of this year, we would not go for any new business and make sure our current clients received our full attention. And we have been very tempted at times. But it’s always a decision we make together.”
Tim: “But if we go for it, we really go for it. Pitches can be a draining process. So you have to calculate will it be good for the future of the agency. And if we do, we don’t sleep for a few days.”
Leon: “Deciding to go for OCBC wasn’t an easy decision. We knew what we were up against [Ogilvy was the competitor agency] and then there is a whole new level of responsibility for a small agency like ourselves. But we thought it would mean so much for us to win it. We went in for the experience and gave it our best shot with no expectations. When we won we were tremendously surprised. We were a 28-man shop against the biggest agency in town. And everyone kept asking us how on earth we were going to do it?
“When we released our first branding campaign, it was something nobody expected – especially from a bank. And it kind of helped us slay our own inner demons – whether we had bitten off more than we could chew.”
Have you had results from the ‘lie detector test’ campaign yet? And what did you think of the response it got on Facebook and on Mumbrella Asia’s comment feed? It seemed to provoke quite the debate.
Tim: “We’re still waiting for the results. The bank has it’s own internal figures and wants to look at them over a long-term. And whenever you put something out like that, you know it will get a response. We were just focused on trying to deliver a vision that was close to the bank. We’re pretty thick-skinned.”
Some questioned whether the lie detector was even real?
Tim: “It was real. And we look back now and we see that as just the beginning. We have a follow-up coming on a different facet of the campaign.”
Leon: “There will always be comments, positive or negative. Was the lie detector real? It was 100 per cent. The bank would never have allowed us to engage in morally corrupt or unethical practice. Was the idea rocket science? No, the bank was already adopting this practice; we were merely visualising it. We’re lucky our clients are very trusting of us.”
You say comments don’t matter to you, but the age of social media has put ads under an extra level of scrutiny these days. Do you think that will have an impact on and clients’ willingness to sign off certain work because of a potential social media reaction?
Aaron: “Yes it does have an effect to an extent. You cannot control what people say, but before you release a piece of work you have to consider what people will say about it. If it goes down the wrong way, you need a backdoor plan to subside the turbulence. There is no cut-in-stone formula though for social media greatness. Nobody has that. It’s just a matter of taking the comments into consideration.”
Tim: “But there are interesting rewards with social media. You can get the whole world to see your ad, whether in a good or a bad way.”
Would you prefer to have a campaign that received bad comments rather than none at all?
Leon: “I don’t think any agency wants bad comments on their work. It’s pride after all. But at the end of the day, we have to think that our work impacts people and we have to think about the repercussions. That’s a consideration before we launch or even sell ideas to the client. Is it too controversial? Sometimes things go viral on social and it’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever seen. But it gets millions of views. So is that a good campaign? And we always say, if you believed in the idea when you sold it, that’s all that matters.
“It’s not that we do not care about comments, but it’s that we cannot live our lives based on the comments we may get. Otherwise no work is going to be rolled out. That’s the truth.”
As a final point, what did you think of news about The Monkeys’ {independent Australian creative agency} acquisition by the consultancy firm Accenture. Would you say that’s a good exit option for an independent?
Leon: “Every business man has their own idea of an exit, whether it’s a holding group, a consultancy or just selling out. We haven’t thought about that option yet. At the moment we are happy, but we may get to a day when we want to explore our options. Would we want to exit or to become a bigger GOVT? For me personally, I will always be happy to work under a boss I respect. I’m happy to be my own boss right now, but it is very stressful. I have 49 other bosses to answer for [the workforce] and every day we have to answer to them.”
Tim: “There’s a great thing to be had living and dying by your own stupidity. It’s part of the fun. There are worse things to do in life.”
No planners? Smart boys.
ReplyThese guys cant even talk a good game, let alone walk it.
ReplyAll these romantic notions of this isn’t perfect but it’s us…lol.
Might as well play ‘My Way’ and be done with it. Remember local startups that were 100 times more dynamic in the past….busy winning business by bucket loads and giving the big boys nightmares till they got bought out. These guys are getting a stiffie over OCBC…the worst bank client in singapore! Haven’t seen anything strategic yet out of them btw.
“IF there is a recession…..”?
shows how out of touch they are.
ReplyPrivate sector economists are more upbeat about Singapore’s economy this year as the global growth outlook continues to brighten, according to a new survey.
Growth is expected to come in at 2.5 per cent this year , according to economists polled by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS) in its latest quarterly survey out yesterday. This is up from the 2.3 per cent forecast in the previous survey.
The more optimistic view comes as trade-related sectors – in particular, electronics manufacturing – have enjoyed a boost from stronger global demand.
ReplyI think these dudes are fighting the good fight. To set-up from scratch and make big strides in new business creating jobs in the process is admirable. Many of the big agencies are full of people hiding, riding in the slipstream of big regional / global accounts, people picking up big salaries in senior positions when they don’t know Singapore or Asia, people who produce scam work. And I say that as an Ang Moh who worked at a big agency. GOVT have put themselves out there, good luck to them.
Yeah and Planners / Strategists is a scam.
ReplyI don’t think there’s any hate in the comments above- aside from the common dislike for planners and ocbc.
For those who have been in this game long enough, we’ve seen the rise of truly exceptional local shops.
They did glabally awarded for real big clients and gave the bigger networks a run for their money and a bloody nose or two.
Being responsible for the payroll of so many staff is indeed laudable and intimidating in such a volatile business.
I really want GOVT to succeed and possibly become the poster agency for local creativity. Their success should spur others to up their game just as FH&S, S&F and Monsoon once did. And cause regional bosses to question the lack luster performance of expat blowhards in their spore office.
Unfortunately I doubt that day will be anytime soon judging from Govt’s creative output.
I recall the ocbc appointment is only for 1 year. And it’s now half time.
Let’s pick up the story 2 years down the road and see whether GOVT is making the right headlines or just another footnote.
Until then, keep up the good fight.
Btw: what happens to the much touted Mini win?
ReplyGood read. Rare to read company profiles in the trade media that are not straight up PR jobs. What I read on the other regional trades are straight up press releases. Fair play to GOVT for being open and honest. Good luck to them
I do however think the OCBC work was dreadful 🙂
Replynice enough guys.
[Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]
no guts or glory in that.
ReplyWhy doesn’t Mumbrella just run pictures of people under the headline “Place your hate here”
It didn’t matter what those guys said, what they’ve done or what they’re planning the jury was out before the article was penned.
I fucking hate the attitude here. Tear down everyone and everything.
Oh and I’m with Jay Chiat, John Hegarty, Dan Wieden, Droga and Matt Jarvis on planners, not with a pack of snippy fuckwads looking to blame everyone else for their mediocrity.
Good on you GOVT. and good luck
Replywhat a thing to say
of course they will be more equipped than big agencies in a recession.
15 people are easier to get rid off than 500….2-3 accounts are piddlearicks.
i was visiting tan boon liat building ….thats a pretty crummy run down warehouse space so the rent would be nothing as well.
ReplyThank you everyone for the comments, good or bad, we accept it and take it all in. With regards to the work, we try our best, every single day. We apologise if you think the work is dreadful, and we promise to continue to try harder. Not for anyone, but for ourselves and our clients.
We knew what we were in for when this article ran. Are we proud that we won OCBC? Yes, but we are not trumpeting it. The interview questions were as such, we simply answered them the most honest and best we could. Again, I apologise if anyone thinks we are blowing our own trumpet too loudly. It was never our intention to do so.
Tan Boon Liat is a mixed office-warehouse space indeed, but it serves our needs. As a business, we are working with our own money. The rent suits us, the location suits us, and the season parking is cheap (!). I would much rather pay bonuses to our people and spend more on our annual trip than pay too much to a landlord.
Whether we are 15 or 50, it is our responsibility as business owners to keep our people in a job. Even if we lose accounts. It is not fair to ask our people to work hard for us, and yet we treat them as dispensables. It is definitely not easy, and we have lost clients, but we’re proud to say that we’ve never let go of any of our guys. Is OCBC a different ball game due to the revenue involved? Could we still keep all our staff if one day we lose the account? It scares the shit out of us that that could happen, and that’s why we try our best to Ensure that we are business and people responsible, and make sure we don’t become overly dependent on any one client. We try our best.
We resigned the MINI account a few months back. It was a great account, with great potential, but sometimes like any relationship, things don’t work out. No one is at fault here. It is an open secret that a pitch is going on. Whoever wins, I hope the brand will get the recognition it deserves. We have nothing but good things to say about the account, and it was a great 1 year working on it.
Last but not least, we don’t think planners are a waste of money. But we are not at the stage whereby we can afford to invest in a pure play planner. Our accounts aren’t big enough to demand for that. Will we hire a solid planner one day? Yes. But at the moment, we try our best to put on that strategic thinking cap, and make do with what we have and what we can. We are fortunate to have some sharp minds in the agency who don’t mind the double duty. Just like how our suits function as PMs and Producers as well. It’s tough as hell, but again, need vs want. But if one day the agency demands that specialisation, we’ll be sure to put the money down and invest in these specialists.
It’s not easy running a business, especially an agency. It keeps us up at night, every night. We try to have fun, to create work that we believe in, and we try to be as honest as we can to all our stakeholders. We’re not perfect, never will be, but we’ll always give it a good go.
Again, thank you everyone. We’re not looking for love here. Everyone should have their opinions, and we absolutely respect that.
Have a good evening.
ReplyThey did pitch this year what!
ReplyLeon
For your candid reply, you have my further respect.
That’s more honesty and humility I’ve heard from any agency head in a long time.
Running an agency is a marathon.
It’s less stressful when you do it with good people next and around you.
May your success prove the doubters wrong and stay true to your principles of rewarding staff over self.
Good luck.
ReplyI have so much respect for anyone setting out to build their own business in an “honest” way.
All the best to you guys. Good or bad work, let the clients and consumers be the judge of that (and not the Mumbrella comment section). I wish you the best and hope you stay true to the principles mentioned above.
ReplyGOVT have built a thriving business from scratch in 4 years and regularly give the established agencies a run for their money – that’s an impressive feat. We love being on a pitch list against them, because if they are, we know we have to put up a good fight.
With regards to creative, Tim Chan worked at iris for many years & I can personally vouch for his brilliance, any client with him on your business is very lucky. We all know it’s hard to get great work out and the more we recognize that as an industry wide issue, the more likely we are to drive positive change.
Until our next dual, crack on GOVT.
Reply*duel
Replyhey Sorcha, i know where you work, so I’m gonna hunt you down some time soon and…buy you a beer! Ha.
thanks. you’re far too kind. my time at Iris was a great one in so many ways. and i do miss Chezza’s craziness at times.
keep chuggin’ on!
ReplyThese appear to be really nice kids. Not bright or creative, but honest lads, and that may be their biggest problem. The OCBC work was awful and a bit embarrassing because nice guys were behind it, not bright ones.
Sorcha, you appear to be a nice person too. Just had a peek at your LinkedIn profile and the only reason why any agency should hire you is your relative lack of experience with huge challenges on huge projects for huge clients. In short, an affordable hire for a market that doesn’t necessarily need smarts to survive. In Iris – a relatively faceless sweatshop that feeds off big agency crumbs
I think we all share a common dislike for the big shops. But they’re not going away just because candy crush gigs offer sweet effete reasons for their existence with genuine humility. I don’t expect GOVT to start life in Raffles Place instead of a warehouse. Just as long as the ideas look like they’re coming from top hires who work in good stimulating environments. This is an ideas business, not a charity.
To be proud of winning OCBC against McCann etc. is in itself a bit shady. Like Sorcha, this bunch of sweet lads must have been picked for their low fees and ability to be reined in. Surely, that’s very likely, no? Anyways, this is OCBC, not UOB or DBS.
No reason why small shops can’t dream big. But I’m more likely to go with a local shop like TSLA than GOVT. As for you Sorcha, given your loose use of words like “thriving”, “impressive”and “brilliance” for these charming lads, all I can say is stay nice. It’s probably the only thing you’re likely to be recognized and remembered for.
ReplySorcha John: “GOVT have built a thriving business from scratch in 4 years and regularly give the established agencies a run for their money.”
Leon: “Our accounts aren’t big enough.”
ReplyThe level of mean on this thread is just…WOW. I always think I should be used to it by now, but then people like “govtogo” continue to amaze me.
Hiding behind a no-name like the true troll that you are, and then checking up on people’s LinkedIn because they had more balls to use their real name is just disgraceful.
And no, I don’t know who the hell [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines] is, but still think that what you did is low.
If these are the kinds of people that populate the industry, then I am not surprised that it is in the state it is. How do you expect to get great creative work from people who are more busy trying to tear others down.
ReplyGood job boys employing that many people at a young age must be stressful. And don’t worry ah, haters gonna hate !
ReplyLets just stop hating and do better work. All that petty personal attack is baseless and uncalled for. It just shows how small minded people in this industry actually is. Or truly unhappy with their own lives. Isn’t advertising supposed to be busy and hard enough? Clearly not.
Reply“These appear to be really nice kids. Honest lads, and that may be their biggest problem.”
Politest way to put it, although the following comment from their MD reminded me of the PM apologising to the people while campaigning during the 2011 elections:
“With regards to the work, we try our best, every single day. We apologise if you think the work is dreadful, and we promise to continue to try harder. Not for anyone, but for ourselves and our clients.”
I have a hard time believing they’re sorry for anything. In private, they make out like they are the local droga5.
Lets see how they do….from my experience if you’re not off to a flying start, it’s usually a cold hard thankless slog.
Wish they had thought of a better name….how does their receptionist answer the phone….GOVT (unpronounceable) or Government (naff).
ReplyPoor thing!
Nice?
Nice comes into play only after you’ve ticked all the other boxes.
[Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]
Reply@Sean totally agree with you about them thinking they’re the local Droga5s in private. The whole “outward humility” thing is good PR .
The work (be it the dreadful lie detector test) or the #staytrue campaign is just cheesy beyond belief. Banks don’t retain agencies just to be “creative” but to be effective. So when the results come in and OCBC doesn’t rake up millions in new account openings or funds being managed, it’s always easy to re-assess the local agency appointment. I’m a huge fan of indie agencies, I just don’t think OCBC was smart about who they picked. The results won’t lie.
And someone should really ask the MINI client what they really think about Govt.
ReplyDear Leon. Are you seriously saying that the people you hire have no access to the solid creative and strategic guidance of recognized industry leaders? Does your conscience allow for the possibility of these youngsters growing up with the trauma of not commanding as much market worth as their contemporaries who benefited from such a solid foundation – with qualified mentors in larger agencies and networks? Is this ethical? Or just another selfish social experiment in the interests of profitability?
Reply“…totally agree with you about them thinking they’re the local Droga5s in private. The whole “outward humility” thing is good PR .”
Of course, what…..first photo, see the expression on the extreme right guys face, you know oredi.
ReplyThe OCBC work is admittedly terrible. I’d say it needs a strat planner to lock it all down, or a great creative leader to reject the brief. It also lacks the maturity a bank like OCBC deserves. Aside from a slick press release to promote GOVT what is really going on there? Think these guys were better of doing events for Mini. It’s a very local shop and we need those for sure. Let’s see how far they can go with work like this for OCBC. [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]
ReplyThe lie detector idea was pretty much plucked from crispin porter’s hugely award winning anti smoking campaign – TRUTH. Local shops like Kinetic, Monsoon etc have all done heaps better work without yapping so much about themselves.
ReplyThey’re [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines] all.
ReplySo much vitrol and hate here. I hope you guys are top ‘Chief Creative Officers’ or some emeritus wanna-be leaders at the network agencies here because based on all the negative feedback, this reflects how ‘sound’ you big boys are. GOVT aren’t hiding behind those keyboards, we all are. Being crowned “Agency of the Year” or your Cannes Gold blings will NOT resolve the numbers game even when you lose a big account and resort to lay-offs aka ‘ongoing review of talent and skill mix across the agency’. Blah Blah Blah, let’s put it this in perspective—they’ve won, they’re delivering the goods and we’re sitting in one corner licking our wounds. So chin up and face the music—because it’s the recession or the latter that hits us hard, really hard. It is always easier to criticize than to create people.
ReplyAnyone actually working in the business knows how difficult it is to get brilliant Creative work out. They’ve only been around 4 years. Give them more time. I’m putting my money on these guys, although I do think they will sell to a bigger network if the right offer comes along tomorrow. I’ll still take a GOVT anyday over that [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines] shop TSLA. These guys are real. That agency is a PR play from start to finish, touting ‘localness’ but turning down portfolios for being ‘too local’. Someone needs to call their bluff.
ReplyThe work is immature. I don’t think they are [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]. They were better off doing those lame content videos back when they opened. The mass [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]. Can’t believe these guys got the Lie detector videos out. The bank had nothing to say with it, such a half-baked idea. These boys [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]. TSLA? Not sure what’s going on there anymore after [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines].
ReplyCan’t wait to see OCBC move on from [Edited under Mumbrella’s community guidelines]. The work is badly written for a bank like OCBC. Just read the bodycopy and you’ll see what I mean. I think they’re all art directors. As a client looking at their work I’m quite surprised OCBC isn’t farming out briefs on the side by now. Good luck to agency and client for a very weak year of advertising work.
ReplyHave your say